Curse

bulletsmile · Apr 18, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

ok couldn't find a thread like this, but delete if it is....
ok is it just me or does you guys think pets should get their own skill bars?
i think that would be good, the pets could get a skillbar with their own skills on and the pet would be able to use the skills itself with it's own energy.
-the number of skills they could carry would depend on their lv.
-they use their skills themself, so we don't need to do that too..
-they can have like max 3 skills
-they have their own energy, as much a warrior in gladiator's
-the player would get a small window where he/she could see the pet's skills
-the pet could only carry beast mastery attack skills, Feral lunge etc..
-you would have to carry the beast mastery non-attack skills like charm animal, comfort animal, spirits etc...

what do you guys think?

Thock · Apr 18, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

I would rather see more AI improvements or even direct control over pets first. As far as that suggestion goes, seems a bit broken (aka overpowered) to me. Basically it gives you more than eight available skill slots. Sure you can only put pet attacks in there but still, that frees up slots in the main skill bar and still have the benefit of the pet attacks. I think a better idea would be to put pet commands in there such as stay, attack, etc.

Jenosavel · Apr 18, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

I'm sure this suggestion is spawned of the fact that bringing a pet is so incredibly skill heavy and leaves next to nothing for you to do besides pet stuff; however, I don't think this is the right way to go about fixing it. My main problem with your idea is the fact that the pet would be using the skills itself. This means that:

We are forced to further rely on the game's horrible AI. Any control we have over our pet's timing has just been destroyed... I want more control over my pet, not less.
The pets using the skills means they will now be interruptable, removing one of the huge advantages pet attacks have. Currently, enemies can interrupt your pet all they like but as soon as they let one attack through, the attack skill that they were supposedly interrupting fires off. This goes straight through disabline interrupts like Distracting Shot as well.
The pets needing to use the skills also means that beastmasters will become suceptible to energy denial, which is currently laughable when used against a beast master. Even if pets were to benefit from their master's Expertise (and they would need to in order to have any sort of chance), they still don't have the ability to use staves for extra energy or weapon swap. This would be a further hindrance in dynamic gameplay such as PvP, where a pet is already suffering from inflexibility problems.

I think rather than a separate pet skill bar, they should just rework Charm Animal and/or Comfort Animal so that you're not forced to put these two skills on your bar when they serve no purpose the vast majority of the time.

SpeedyKQ · Apr 18, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Yeah, I'd like to see Charm Animal and Comfort Animal combined into one skill to take a little pressure off the skillbar.

bulletsmile · Apr 18, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

ok, good ideas, but maybe an option where you choose your pet to or not to control the skills itself, becouse it's very stressful to be a beast master where you must pay attention to both you and your pet

Dougal Kronik · Apr 18, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I think the way to go is the Pet Command or the Charm/Comfort balance.

I don't see how taking care of yourself and your pet with your eight skills can be any more difficult than playing as a healing monk or battery necro. Where you have to take care of yourself and up to seven others with your eight skills.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 18, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Taking care of your pet and yourself is what comes with being a beast master. The ranger is ranged and isn't really the focus of the enemy since it's usually the magic users or the tank (since the tank is the closest target). As a ranger I found that whenever the enemy goes after the magic users (which are usually near me) the magic users flee then the enemy goes after the nearest non fleeing target, me. However a simple dust trap planted at my feet solves that problem causing the enemy to both scatter and become blind. So I only really have to focus on my pet. I usually go full ranger and not use my secondary using troll unguant (since it can't be stripped or shattered as it's not an enchantment just a skill) and Malandru's Resiliance ((parden my spelling) to turn conditions and hexes into a benefit). One skill slot goes to dust trap and the rest to my pet.

They just have to do something with the comfort animal and charm animal. Make them one because to have to use two slots to bring a pet and keep it alive is too much a cost.

fiery · Apr 18, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I think it would overpower rangers, 2 sets of skill bars, ranger and pet?

Mandy Memory · Apr 18, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

As long as the pet's owner loses skill slots equal to the number of skills on the pet...I see no problem with this. (If they dont...its unbalanced and just another lame "Make beastmasters the best class thread")

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Problems with this suggestion abound but I'll only cover the glaring ones. A) It would clutter the screen up even more. B) It makes no sense for them to act independently because you train them. Attacks dogs have to be told to attack why shouldn't your pet do the same? C) It would involve writing an extremely complicated AI script in order to make the pet utilize the skills effectively by themselves. The benefit does not justify the work and all you will end up with is a broken AI.

bulletsmile · Apr 18, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

ok lets say it like this, if or if not the pet get it's own skill bar the number of skills the pet use are taken away from your skill bar, ye charm and comfort should really be just one skill, but i still think we should have an option where we could choose if the pet use th skills on it's own or you use them for it, they could also make an option where to choose if the pet attack your target or goes freely like a minion...

Str0b0 · Apr 18, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

the fact still remains that you would have to write a complex situational AI that would take into account all the possible pet skills and their uses as well as any combinations of skills that work synergeticly for better effect. the programming alone wouldn't be worth the benefit. If you know about programming languages then you know that AI is the equivalent of a lot of If Then statements chained together and cross referencing each other. Even the simplest tasks, when translated into If Then statements can become staggeringly large affairs. Now imagine having an AI track what a monster is doing, select the appropriate skill to use in that situation, chain it with other synergetic skills for the best effect and monitor itself for healing and such. We are talking hundreds of lines of code here and a lot of man hours writing, debugging, testing and implementing it. It's just not worth the effort. The way I see it Beast Mastery was never supposed to be the main attribute for a ranger anyway. It seems to me it was put there to make the ranger a little more self sufficient in that he can provide his own tank to keep enemies at range.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 18, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Well put Str0b0. As a hobby programmer I too realize the effort it takes to program an AI. But a simple set of commands derived from the player's intelligence is fairly easy from a coding point of view.

I'm not saying it would be easy to incorporate and balance for the entire Guild Wars universe - just not as difficult as programming an AI.

Evilsod · Apr 18, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

All i want them to do with Beastmasters is improve the damn pets AI and stop wasting 2 of our slots with the frigging pet skills.

Why not make Charm Animal something to bring to Charm a pet, Comfort Animal something to bring if you want to bring it with you anywhere and res it. No other build in the entire game uses 2 skills that MUST be there or everything else won't work. At least this way Charm Animal won't need to be taken just to sit in your skillbar doing nothing.

mariano · Apr 18, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I do not think that a secondary bar for the pet is relevant, as it implies a big change in the game interface.

I suggest that a new concept class is what is needed. Something like:

Shephard This character abilities are based on her mastery of a pet companion.

So that the Shephard would use Shephard's weapon, like staffs, and would bring always a pet with him, so that no slot would be used just to have the pet active, and most skills would be for the pet.

I have though that it could be made so that the Shepherd were able to self resurrect as long as her pet is alive; so that to defeat the Shepherd both her and her pet have to be killed. The Shephard would also have a greater control over her pet movements and actions than a ranger has.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Taking care of your pet and yourself is what comes with being a beast master. The ranger is ranged and isn't really the focus of the enemy since it's usually the magic users or the tank (since the tank is the closest target). As a ranger I found that whenever the enemy goes after the magic users (which are usually near me) the magic users flee then the enemy goes after the nearest non fleeing target, me. However a simple dust trap planted at my feet solves that problem causing the enemy to both scatter and become blind. So I only really have to focus on my pet. I usually go full ranger and not use my secondary using troll unguant (since it can't be stripped or shattered as it's not an enchantment just a skill) and Malandru's Resiliance ((parden my spelling) to turn conditions and hexes into a benefit). One skill slot goes to dust trap and the rest to my pet.

They just have to do something with the comfort animal and charm animal. Make them one because to have to use two slots to bring a pet and keep it alive is too much a cost.

Charm Animal
Beast Attack
Beast Attack
Beast Survival
Troll Unguent
Dust Trap
Melandru's Resilience
Ressurection Signet

Sounds good. I have similar Beastmaster ideas. What I believe is and correct me if Im wrong, that Beastmasters require to actually practically rely on their pets so most of the templates look like this:

Versiom 1
Charm Animal
B Attack
B Attack
B Attack/Survival/Elite
R Attack/Survival/Elite
R Attack/Survival/Utility
R Attack/Survival/Utility
Ressurection Signet

Version 2
Charm Animal
B Attack
B Attack
B Attack
B Attack/Survival/Elite
R Attack/Survival/Elite
R Survival/Utility
Ressurection Signet

Version 3
Charm Animal
B Attack
B Attack
B Attack/Elite
B/R Utility/Elite
R Survival/Utility
R Survival/Utility
Ressurection Signet

This forces the Ranger to depend too much on the pet which wouldnt be that bad if the pet had more control. Usually I use Comfort Animal or Revive Animals or Predator's Pounce and Symbiotic Bond to keep the pet healthy.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

All i want them to do with Beastmasters is improve the damn pets AI and stop wasting 2 of our slots with the frigging pet skills.

Why not make Charm Animal something to bring to Charm a pet, Comfort Animal something to bring if you want to bring it with you anywhere and res it. No other build in the entire game uses 2 skills that MUST be there or everything else won't work. At least this way Charm Animal won't need to be taken just to sit in your skillbar doing nothing.

While Charm/Comfort union would be nice I dont think thats going to happen.

Trylo · Apr 18, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

ok i like it, but it shoul dbe an elite skill and you would still need comfort and Charm. Only way i see it would even be considered.

Trusting Companion {E}
While your pet is with you, the pet gains 1...3 pre-selected skills in which the pet can use. While this skill is on your skill bar, your pet recieves 5...25 energy and 1...3 energy regeneration. This is an elite skill. (Linked to Beastmastery, i have no clue what the pets standard energy is, but i thought that would be fair)

This gives you 3 skills for the price of an elite and a skill spot. but also a new pool of AI controlled energy... maybe a little overpowered, but if there skills that can make it so u can have 2 elites on ur skill bar, i say go for it.

Thats my 2 bits.

Mandy Memory · Apr 18, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariano

I do not think that a secondary bar for the pet is relevant, as it implies a big change in the game interface.

I suggest that a new concept class is what is needed. Something like:

Shephard This character abilities are based on her mastery of a pet companion.

So that the Shephard would use Shephard's weapon, like staffs, and would bring always a pet with him, so that no slot would be used just to have the pet active, and most skills would be for the pet.

I have though that it could be made so that the Shepherd were able to self resurrect as long as her pet is alive; so that to defeat the Shepherd both her and her pet have to be killed. The Shephard would also have a greater control over her pet movements and actions than a ranger has.

Therefore this would be a useless secondary...and have self ressurect...and bring 2 bodies to the field with no drawbacks? This is the definition of broken and overpowered.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

ok i like it, but it shoul dbe an elite skill and you would still need comfort and Charm. Only way i see it would even be considered.

Trusting Companion {E}
While your pet is with you, the pet gains 1...3 pre-selected skills in which the pet can use. While this skill is on your skill bar, your pet recieves 5...25 energy and 1...3 energy regeneration. This is an elite skill. (Linked to Beastmastery, i have no clue what the pets standard energy is, but i thought that would be fair)

This gives you 3 skills for the price of an elite and a skill spot. but also a new pool of AI controlled energy... maybe a little overpowered, but if there skills that can make it so u can have 2 elites on ur skill bar, i say go for it.

Thats my 2 bits.

Still overpowered. In essecne that player has eight skills plus three more skills for his/her pet. Totally overpowered Id say.